Bugbear said:
"How could god kill all humans in a flood except for 8 other people, when he/she was actually the father of them all?
"
Good point, and I hope that nobody forgets the countless animals that were needlessly murdered in the Flood.
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.co.uk/2009/01/how-many-animals-has-god-killed.html
defender of truth
JoinedPosts by defender of truth
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68
The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.
by booker-t ini recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.
i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.
she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.
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defender of truth
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754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
Here is the original question, which no theist has satisfactorily been able to answer yet:
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"Theists, why does God allow suffering..
..specifically, the suffering of animals. You can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to God etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. But how can you love a God that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with God, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways?" -
754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
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defender of truth
"try to stop hating, you are wasting your time with god u believe does not even exist."
I don't hate him. Neither do I hate Santa Claus. I am trying to help people who spend their lives worshipping this God to see who it is they worship, this is what freed me mentally from being a JW. -
68
The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.
by booker-t ini recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.
i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.
she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.
-
-
defender of truth
Race andros said:"is not atheism also a belief system."
This may enlighten you, andros..
"Atheism is usually defined incorrectly as a belief system. Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods.
Older dictionaries define atheism as "a belief that there is no God." Some dictionaries even go so far as to define Atheism as "wickedness," "sinfulness," and other derogatory adjectives. Clearly, theistic influence taints dictionaries. People cannot trust these dictionaries to define atheism. The fact that dictionaries define Atheism as "there is no God" betrays the (mono)theistic influence. Without the (mono)theistic influence, the definition would at least read "there are no gods."
Why should atheists allow theists to define who atheists are? Do other minorities allow the majority to define their character, views, and opinions? No, they do not. So why does everyone expect atheists to lie down and accept the definition placed upon them by the world’s theists? Atheists will define themselves.
Atheism is not a belief system nor is it a religion.While there are some religions that are atheistic (certain sects of Buddhism, for example), that does not mean that atheism is a religion. Two commonly used retorts to the nonsense that atheism is a religion are: 1) If atheism is a religion then bald is a hair color, and 2) If atheism is a religion then health is a disease.
A new one introduced in 2012 by Bill Maher is, "If atheism is a religion, then abstinence is a sexual position."
The only common thread that ties all atheists together is a lack of belief in gods and supernatural beings."
http://www.atheists.org/activism/resources/what-is-atheism -
68
The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.
by booker-t ini recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.
i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.
she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.
-
-
defender of truth
Race andros said:"why are you compelled to force your shit now like you did then. only those who recieve everlasting life will know any difference."
..This is a topic about atheists and believers. Nobody is forcing you to read it, and my post was not off-topic, so far as I am aware. I was merely responding to this provocative statement on page 1.
ablebodiedmanposted~ 9 hours ago(6/29/2014)
' I do not know how men come to the idea there is no "evidence" of intelligent design and purpose in this universe. '
Me neither.
The amount of evidence is overwhelming!
It can only be denied through ignorance or ridicule. "
.. You can only deny intelligient design through ignorance. Sounded like a challenge to me, and an insult to all atheists. Also, any lurkers may be helped to think by the information I researched and provided. But thank you for telling me to 'stfu', it was very helpful and productive. -
95
The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals
by cofty inmy thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.
this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.
it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.
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defender of truth
I didn't call you a troll?... I was trying to defend you. Whatever, I'm done.
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95
The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals
by cofty inmy thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.
this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.
it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.
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defender of truth
He has had several friends in the past..
mommyposted13 years ago(3/5/2001)
Post452of1816
Joined12/26/2000
"Focus,
I tried to email you but it didn't work! So I will put here what I had written.....
Don't let the busturds get you down
I can tell you have a good heart and a love for your fellow man. A bit lengthy at times, but worth it to dig for the gold. Thank you for being here, and for what you do on the other sites as well.
wendy"
SixofNineposted13 years ago(3/5/2001)
Post99of14410
Joined12/17/2000
"hmmm...
Maybe it's just me, but I am not having any trouble understanding EXACTLY what Focus is saying.
As for those calling Focus "stupid", or, "an idiot", you aren't fooling anyone. You don't believe it for a second.
His words may have stung you, they may be bitter as wormwood, you may think him mean spirited, and you may even disagree w/ him on some points. But no, believe me, no one is buying it when you act as if you think he is stupid.
I think he is kind of cuddly."
Focus said: "..I just don't like seeing kids raped and killed (see the New Thread I have introduced) thanks to the Watchtower's setup and practises... a crazy prejudice, I know!"
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/3088/1/A-New-Nail-in-FRIENDs-COFFIN-3b#.U7C0pl2t-o8
....
And some interesting thoughts here..
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/3294/1/Child-Molestation#.U7C24l2t-o8 -
95
The Ravings of Trolls Distracts FOCUS From Real Watchtower Scandals
by cofty inmy thread was inspired by gentledawn's insightful comment about the effect the events in wales had on her jw husband.... hope any lurkers out there can filter out the signal (storys and experiences like this) to noise (the current trolls running amok on the forums) ratios.
this the problem with those who focus on outrageous fantasies about the watchtower.
it distracts from the real issues that need to be highlighted.. what happened in wales was for real.
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defender of truth
I think he/she may be disturbed and hate the Watchtowers abuse policies. Not a troll though, look how far back he/she goes, and he has a strange sense of humour..
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/2588/1/Major-Problem-Exists-On-New-H2O-Board#.U7Cxe12t-o8
....
Also..
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/3035/1/PEDOPHILES-are-to-WTS-as-flies-are-to-honey#.U7CyrV2t-o8 -
754
Theists, why does God allow suffering..
by The Quiet One in..specifically, the suffering of animals.
you can talk about free will/sin/people choosing to not listen to god etc to explain human suffering being allowed.. but how can you love a god that allows animals, that haven't sinned or chosen to not have anything to do with god, to have their short lives ended in often long, drawn out, painful ways.
i could list stories i've read that would probably make you feel ill, but i'm not looking to shock anyone or start an emotional debate.
-
-
defender of truth
"The Komodo Dragon of Komodo Island. It has the most basic venom system available. It has cultures of bacteria that live in its mouth that are completely poisonous to mammalian blood. It survives by ambushing a herbivore as it minds its own business and goes about its day eating plants. The animal survives the bite and usually walks away. Within three or four days though it falls over dead from blood poisoning. The Komodo Dragon will follow it until it falls over, and then it begins to eat it alive."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/111762/2/Animals-didnt-sin-so-why-do-they-kill-each-other#.U7CYLl2t-o8
.....
"..the caterpillar of the geometer moth. Against its will, it is recruited to defend the developing young of a parasitic wasp, and the only ‘reward’ it gets for its trouble is to be eaten inside out by the larvae of its attacker.
The vast majority of wasps are “ parasitoids“, animals that practice the grisly art of body-snatching. They lay their eggs in the bodies of other living animals to provide their newly hatched grubs with a fresh supply of meat. Like HR Giger’s alien, the full-grown larvae then burst through their host’s skin, usually killing it in the process.
But the fate of one type of caterpillar Thyrinteina leucocerae doesn’t end there. It is targeted by a Glyptapanteles wasp that, on a single pass, can lay as many as 80 eggs onto the hapless host. Two weeks later, the larvae burst through their host’s skin. But despite its injuries, the caterpillar remains alive and stays near the hatched grubs as they spin their pupae and turn into adults. It never moves and it never feeds. All it does it violently swing its head in response to nearby movement. After the adult wasps fly off, it eventually dies.
Amir Grosman from the University of Amsterdam has found that the caterpillar’s strange behaviour is all part of the manipulations of the wasp. Its last act is to defend the very grubs that spent the last two weeks killing it, playing the role of bodyguard as well as incubator...
In natural conditions, the caterpillar’s vigil ensures that more wasp pupae survive. When Grosman removed these unwitting guardians, the death rate among the pupae doubled. Some were eaten and a few, in an ironic twist, became hosts themselves to other wasp grubs – a case of so-called “hyperparasitism”. Clearly, the young wasps benefit from their warden’s actions but the caterpillars themselves get nothing. Every last one of them was dead within a week after the pupae opened and the adult wasps emerged."
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/06/03/parasitic-wasp-turns-caterpillars-into-headbanging-bodyguard/
....
"Screw-worm fly
An insect parasite of warm-blooded animals. The fly has red eyes and a shiny blue-green body and looks similar to Australian blowflies. Flies lay eggs on the edge of open wounds from scratches, injury, branding, dehorning or castration. Larvae hatch and feed on the underlying flesh causing extensive tissue damage. Left untreated, animals can die from infection and loss of tissue fluid. Its known for the larvae to eat their host from the inside out!"
"Naegleria
brain-eating amoeba
Infection with Naegleria causes the disease primary amebic meningoencephalitis (PAM), a brain inflammation, which leads to the destruction of brain tissue. Initial signs and symptoms of PAM start 1 to 14 days after infection. These symptoms include headache, fever, nausea, vomiting, and stiff neck. As the amoeba cause more extensive destruction of brain tissue this leads to confusion, lack of attention to people and surroundings, loss of balance, seizures, and hallucinations. After the onset of symptoms, the disease progresses rapidly and usually results in death within 3 to 7 days."
http://listverse.com/2010/01/13/top-10-most-horrific-parasite-infections/
....
"The head-splitting fungus
Cordyceps fungi
Imagine something infiltrating your body, controlling your behaviour and, when it’s done with you, bursting out of your head. That’s exactly what Cordyceps fungi do. Infected ants become disoriented and are often expelled by their colonies. The outcasts climb to the top of the nearest plant, clutch to the stem, and die. When the fungus matures, its fruiting body blooms out of the ant’s head, spreading spores on the wind to infect other hosts."
"The zombie wasp
Ampulex compressa
This resourceful wasp preys on cockroaches, turning them into zombies to feed its young. The female wasp aims a sting directly into the roach’s brain, disabling its escape reflex. She then leads the zombie roach back to her underground nest, lays an egg on its belly and seals it in. A larva hatches from the egg and burrows into the roach, where it devours the insect from the inside to form a cocoon from which it will later emerge as a new adult."
http://m.sciencefocus.com/feature/health/10-deadly-parasites -
68
The problems Bible believers have with Atheists is the burden of proof is on the Believer and we just do not have enough proof.
by booker-t ini recently posted a post telling this board my athesit coworker stumped me with questions about the validity of the ark story and i just cannot stop talking to her.
i love hearing her side and point of view which in the past i would have dismissed as "satanic" thinking.
she has some very good questions and i am having a hard time answering them.
-
-
defender of truth
Focus, sorry I misunderstood you, my misake.
@Ablebodiedman
Here are some examples of God's intelligient design..
"The Komodo Dragon of Komodo Island. It has the most basic venom system available. It has cultures of bacteria that live in its mouth that are completely poisonous to mammalian blood. It survives by ambushing a herbivore as it minds its own business and goes about its day eating plants. The animal survives the bite and usually walks away. Within three or four days though it falls over dead from blood poisoning. The Komodo Dragon will follow it until it falls over, and then it begins to eat it alive."
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/111762/2/Animals-didnt-sin-so-why-do-they-kill-each-other#.U7CYLl2t-o8
.....
"..the caterpillar of the geometer moth. Against its will, it is recruited to defend the developing young of a parasitic wasp, and the only ‘reward’ it gets for its trouble is to be eaten inside out by the larvae of its attacker.
The vast majority of wasps are “ parasitoids“, animals that practice the grisly art of body-snatching. They lay their eggs in the bodies of other living animals to provide their newly hatched grubs with a fresh supply of meat. Like HR Giger’s alien, the full-grown larvae then burst through their host’s skin, usually killing it in the process.
But the fate of one type of caterpillar Thyrinteina leucocerae doesn’t end there. It is targeted by a Glyptapanteles wasp that, on a single pass, can lay as many as 80 eggs onto the hapless host. Two weeks later, the larvae burst through their host’s skin. But despite its injuries, the caterpillar remains alive and stays near the hatched grubs as they spin their pupae and turn into adults. It never moves and it never feeds. All it does it violently swing its head in response to nearby movement. After the adult wasps fly off, it eventually dies.
Amir Grosman from the University of Amsterdam has found that the caterpillar’s strange behaviour is all part of the manipulations of the wasp. Its last act is to defend the very grubs that spent the last two weeks killing it, playing the role of bodyguard as well as incubator...
In natural conditions, the caterpillar’s vigil ensures that more wasp pupae survive. When Grosman removed these unwitting guardians, the death rate among the pupae doubled. Some were eaten and a few, in an ironic twist, became hosts themselves to other wasp grubs – a case of so-called “hyperparasitism”. Clearly, the young wasps benefit from their warden’s actions but the caterpillars themselves get nothing. Every last one of them was dead within a week after the pupae opened and the adult wasps emerged."
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/06/03/parasitic-wasp-turns-caterpillars-into-headbanging-bodyguard/
....
"Screw-worm fly
An insect parasite of warm-blooded animals. The fly has red eyes and a shiny blue-green body and looks similar to Australian blowflies. Flies lay eggs on the edge of open wounds from scratches, injury, branding, dehorning or castration. Larvae hatch and feed on the underlying flesh causing extensive tissue damage. Left untreated, animals can die from infection and loss of tissue fluid. Its known for the larvae to eat their host from the inside out!"
"Naegleria
brain-eating amoeba
Infection with Naegleria causes the disease primary amebic meningoencephalitis (PAM), a brain inflammation, which leads to the destruction of brain tissue. Initial signs and symptoms of PAM start 1 to 14 days after infection. These symptoms include headache, fever, nausea, vomiting, and stiff neck. As the amoeba cause more extensive destruction of brain tissue this leads to confusion, lack of attention to people and surroundings, loss of balance, seizures, and hallucinations. After the onset of symptoms, the disease progresses rapidly and usually results in death within 3 to 7 days."
http://listverse.com/2010/01/13/top-10-most-horrific-parasite-infections/
....
"The head-splitting fungus
Cordyceps fungi
Imagine something infiltrating your body, controlling your behaviour and, when it’s done with you, bursting out of your head. That’s exactly what Cordyceps fungi do. Infected ants become disoriented and are often expelled by their colonies. The outcasts climb to the top of the nearest plant, clutch to the stem, and die. When the fungus matures, its fruiting body blooms out of the ant’s head, spreading spores on the wind to infect other hosts."
"The zombie wasp
Ampulex compressa
This resourceful wasp preys on cockroaches, turning them into zombies to feed its young. The female wasp aims a sting directly into the roach’s brain, disabling its escape reflex. She then leads the zombie roach back to her underground nest, lays an egg on its belly and seals it in. A larva hatches from the egg and burrows into the roach, where it devours the insect from the inside to form a cocoon from which it will later emerge as a new adult."
http://m.sciencefocus.com/feature/health/10-deadly-parasites